Date: Sun, 6 Nov 94 04:30:19 PST From: Ham-Digital Mailing List and Newsgroup Errors-To: Ham-Digital-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: Ham-Digital@UCSD.Edu Precedence: List Subject: Ham-Digital Digest V94 #369 To: Ham-Digital Ham-Digital Digest Sun, 6 Nov 94 Volume 94 : Issue 369 Today's Topics: 9600bd radio's ?? NOT ! Amateur Packet <-> Linux software. Amtor/Pactor BBS Freqs CD Recording of Mod Types Computer <--> Modem <--> Modem <--> TNC Decode ACARS with a modem? MFJ1270C NoCal OO goes after Packet BULLetins (2 msgs) pk-88 birdie on 145.05 help? unsubscribe WINSOCK <-> AX25 Send Replies or notes for publication to: Send subscription requests to: Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the Ham-Digital Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-digital". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 07:41:03 GMT From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: 9600bd radio's ?? NOT ! In article joopv@etprs.phys.tue.nl () writes: >Since some time now several manufacterers of ham radio equipment offer >'9600 bd ready' vhf/uhf transceivers. I got one of these for some tests, >and was very surprised with the results. This is a brandnew mobile uhf rig, >FM only, from one of the 'big three' brands. The price is in the $500-$600 >range. Don't be coy, name names. We want to know what this radio is so we can avoid it. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 10:29:16 Mst From: ve6hf@ve6hf.ampr.ab.ca (Jefferson Makus) Subject: Amateur Packet <-> Linux software. gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes: > In article <390p3d$c9u@homer.alpha.net> jachim@myhost.subdomain.domain (Matth > >I'm looking for a software package to allow me to use packet radio to > >log into my computer running Linux. From what I understand, it seems it > >should be something like getty (or agetty or uugetty), right? > >The problem is, the data is first intercepted by the TNC. I've heard > >a little about KA9Q and its derivatives. Would this be what I need? > > It could be *exactly* like getty, in fact you can use getty. Just > treat the TNC as a modem and wire up the DCD line. The TNC asserts > that when a connection occurs, and will signal getty to spawn a > login process, just as a telco modem would. So after you connect > to the TNC, you'll see a login: prompt sent back to you. Then > proceed as normal for a telco login. > > Of course since you're on an open radio channel, don't login > to any account you want to keep secure since everyone monitoring > will see the password. Setup a radio login that you wouldn't > mind *anyone* using, and set permissions accordingly. Visual > applications won't run worth spit over the slow half duplex > link, so you'll need to run vi in ex mode, and forget about > doing anything with X. > > If you need client/server functionality, then you'll want > to use the kernel AX25 driver and TCP/IP with a KISS TNC. > That's a much higher level of complexity to set up, but gives > you more flexibility. > > Gary > > > -- > Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary > Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary > 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us > Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | I tryed that but I have the system lock up. Reason for that was that I was that I run a program PACICO that get headers off of the bbs and puts them in the newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.edmonton.alledm (USENET). Be careful that you are just using the tnc or the tty for 1 operation would be my suggestion :) --- You may reply to: ve6hf@ve6hf.ampr.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: 1 Nov 1994 04:20:15 GMT From: ppiercey@random.ucs.mun.ca (Paul Piercey) Subject: Amtor/Pactor BBS Freqs Jim Cummings (jcumming@dgim.doc.ca) wrote: : Hello: : Would someone be kind enough to list the Amtor/Pactor BBS frequencies and : locations? : Thank you : Jim, VE3XJ@VA3TCP I think there is a file at ftp.ucsd.edu with a fairly up-to-date listing of these freqs. I can't confirm this but I have seen a few copies of this type of file at different sites and this site seems well stocked with HAM files. Hope this helps. -- ============================================================================ Paul J. Piercey (VO1HE) Packet Address VO1HE@VO1SIG.#ENF.NF.CAN.NA Internet Address ppiercey@random.ucs.mun.ca ppiercey@morgan.ucs.mun.ca ============================================================================ ------------------------------ Date: 5 Nov 1994 22:40:58 GMT From: khansen@ix.netcom.com (Kevin Hansen) Subject: CD Recording of Mod Types Advertised in the "First October Issue 1994" of Amateur Radio Trader is a 2-CD (audio) set of modulation types. The copy claims 71 emmissions with a running time of 2.5 hours. The price is $75 which includes worldwide registered airmail (the seller is in Germany). Have you heard of this item (or, better yet, used it)? Kevin Hansen WD6FFB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 07:57:32 GMT From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Computer <--> Modem <--> Modem <--> TNC In article <39ccia$f80@bingnet1.cc.binghamton.edu> bd27015@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (David J. Graff) writes: >Jeff Okleberry (jeffo@syseng.slc.unisysgsg.com) wrote: >: I have a new computer which does not have any free modem ports, but does >: have an internal modem. I have an extra stand alone modem and I was >: wondering if it is possible to use the modems so I can commuicate with >: my TNC (Figure 2). > >as for what you are suggesting you'd need a computer on the other end >to run the second modem then the TNC.....the TNC cannot control the >modem... The TNC doesn't have to control the modem. Once you set the modem up, if it's a Smartmodem(tm) it'll stay that way unless the power burps, if it's a dumb modem, it'll stay that way period. >: ____________ _____ _____ _______ >: | | RS-232 | | Telephone | | RS-232 | | >: | Computer |----------|Modem|-------------|Modem|----------| TNC | >: |____________| |_____| |_____| |_______| > >: Figure 2 > > >: My second question is it possible to do the same thing in Figure 2 with >: two computers? A follow-on question is can I use my house's >: internal telephone wiring or do >: I need to run a direct link between the two modems? > >you just can't do it....the modems themselves need to have line >voltage to "see" a carrier No they don't. Standard modems don't use the telco battery voltage at all. They generate tones, and decode tones, any pair of wires will do to conduct the tones from one to the other. You don't want to use your existing telco wiring because the moden loading will signal the central office with an off hook condition. That'll busy your line, and eventually drop a trouble card on your line. But there's no problem using a dry pair to connect the modems. Just remember that you have to initially set one modem to originate mode, and the other to answer mode with the ATO and ATA commands. Set carrier timeout to never, and strap DTR high on the connector. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 00:56:39 PST From: Ted_Eugene_Viens@cup.portal.com Subject: Decode ACARS with a modem? >In article <9411010320.AA14440@chop.isca.uiowa.edu> prusso@chop.isca.uiowa.edu >(Peter Russo) writes: >>From: prusso@chop.isca.uiowa.edu (Peter Russo) >>Subject: Decode ACARS with a modem? >>Date: 31 Oct 1994 20:26:28 -0600 > >>I was just wondering- > >>Does anyone know if it is possible to decode ACARS signals transmitted by an >>airplane with an ordinary 2400 bps modem? >>I'd like to use a modem instead of buying an expensive decoder. > >No. ACARS is MSK, which cannot be handled by a non-MSK modem. Are there >"expensive decoders" available for ACARS? I'd be wary, since the airlines can >transmit basically anything they want in an ACARS packet, so they can do any >kind of shorthand or code they please. You may demodulate it, but you may not >be able to read it. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Eric Jacobsen ericj@primenet.com > EF Data Corp. Vox: (602)968-0447 > 2105 W. 5th Pl. Fax: (602)921-9012 > Tempe, AZ 85281 > > My employer snickers heartily at my opinions. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Quite the opposite. Universal radio makes a couple of $400 decoders that include ACARS. I own the M1200 computer plug-in card decoder. ACARS transmissions are very encoded, however the M1200 manual spends several pages explaining the short-hand and Universal sells an inexpensive pamphlet that goes even further. With a little practice, you can do better than an 80% comprehension of intercepted messages. Of course, most of the messages are pretty mundane. Still, it is always fun to look in on something not really intended for you. Standard disclaimers, I don't have any relationship with Universal Radio beyond a happy customer and it sure would be dull to invest in an ACARS decoder if you didn't live near an airport or major air route.... Bye... Ted.. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 94 00:18:51 GMT From: pandora!daniel (W. Daniel) Subject: MFJ1270C Hi, Thanks for the info on the MFJ-1270-C. Can you tell me how much does the MFJ-46 cost? Does the 1270C run the 1.1.8 TAPR firmware? I suppose there is no easy way to upgrade it ourselves? Secondly, does the 1270B support a mailbox? If so how? Thanks. 73 de 9V1ZV, Daniel p.s. I've been using a 1270B for a little while with an IC-22A. I have received some reports of loss of audio (not carrier) when trasmitting in high power mode. Is there any chance of this being RF induced? The funny thing is that this seems okay on other channels. -- +-------------+-------------------------------------+ | Daniel Wee | daniel%pandora@csah.com | | 9V1ZV | daniel.wee@f516.n600.z6.fidonet.org | | UUCP1.12j | Packet: 9V1ZV @ 9V1VS.SGP.AS -- | +-------------+-------------------------------------+ A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought -- Warren Buffet -- ------------------------------ Date: 3 Nov 1994 17:41:05 -0800 From: rwilkins@ccnet.com (Bob Wilkins n6fri) Subject: NoCal OO goes after Packet BULLetins Steve Wolf (sww@csuohio.edu) wrote: : But is is broadcasting none the less. : I think it was Todd Little that that quoted the definition of broadcasting. : From Part 97.3(a) ... (10) ... Broadcasting - Transmissions intended for : reception by the general public, either direct or relayed. : Clearly, a BBS phone port with a annonymous check-in allows the public access : to relayed transmissions. There are LOTS of phone ports that allow : anonymous check-ins. : So, originators of bulletins which are sent by any means to a BBS that has : a public phone port that are not about amateur radio would fall under : broadcasting. : Broadcasting does not require a one-way transmission. It would appear that : an ax.25 connection between two stations can still be use for broadcasting. : (Bet we are going to move on and say that a bulletin about quilting was : targeted solely at the amateur population. Let me guess ... ANY bulletin : entered on packet is to be assumed to be aimed solely at the amateur radio : population.) I can't tell if I am a victim of dry Cleaveland humor or you are truly serious... In the event you are serious in your interpretations of the rules, do you plan to close down your operations on tcp/ip and public pbbs stations? Following your logic even a personal third party message in transit through your stations that could be seen by a non-amateur scanner enthusiast with a tnc would then be considered broadcasting. Many members of the All Ohio Scanner Club use tncs for entertainment and information gathering. Since it is your station that is being received by the public. why is the originating station in California guilty of Broadcasting? I hope you never have to provide emergency message service to the public during a disaster. Many amateur groups set up packet stations at Malls to provide Health and Welfare messages to the public so they can contact family and friends outside the disaster area. This is an Amateur Service that has always provided good will to the public. Doing this in front of the public and even allowing the public to type their short messages into a computer is a broadcasting violation of your interpretation. Are you sure? Most of us try to interpret the rules to allow us the most latitude in _operating_ our stations even bending them a little to allow new modes of communications. Hank is right when he talks about unconnected UI frames. I have seen many Beacon Broadcasts that could be reasonably called broadcasts as defined. These beacons are generaly of the non amateur _Save our State_ or _Jesus Saves_ or _Pro Gun_ types of quasi-political slogans. This is the area that the OOs and ARRL need to address and educate within our ranks. Lets see ... I have set my Beacon Text to _Cookies are good with Milk_ and I am digipeating this every seven minutes through four digipeaters in the area. Who is violating which rules? Bob -- Bob Wilkins work bwilkins@cave.org Berkeley, California home rwilkins@ccnet.com 94701-0710 play n6fri@n6eeg.#nocal.ca.usa.noam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 20:31:13 GMT From: jangus@skyld.grendel.com (Jeffrey D. Angus) Subject: NoCal OO goes after Packet BULLetins In article <1994Nov3.115023.22992@news.csuohio.edu> sww@csuohio.edu writes: > > Dave Horsfall (dave@eram.esi.com.au) wrote: > : In article <1994Oct29.000208.29686@news.csuohio.edu>, > : sww@csuohio.edu (Steve Wolf) writes: > : > : | All bulletins are broadcasting. They are sent in many directions. When be > : | forwarded, the receiving station did not ask for them. The sending station > : | has no expectation that the receiving BBS will read or reply to them. > : > : Dunno about your neck of the woods, mate, but here down under the sender > : presents a brief list of bulletins, and the receiver is invited to > : accept or reject them... > > When being forwarded? Really? How does that work? I can understand the > user being queried but as the quote says, we are talking about forwarding. > As am I. I receive bulletins from my feed station. The first thing it does is send "SB LOSERS @ ALLCAS < $1234_XYZ" and waits for an "OK" from me. If I alread have a copy of it (based on the bid and wars fought over that in a different thread) I send "NO" and it proceeds to try sending me something else instead. From the questions, answers and other comments you make about this, it seems to me that you do not even have a TNC nor have you spent anytime monitoring a channel. If you have, some of this would be self evident. Face it Steve, you've stepped on your dick. Now quietly put it back in your pants, zip up and stop asking others to come by and step on it as well. Repeat after me: "It is NOT broadcasting." Broadcasting as the FCC intended it to be interpratated was to prevent the amateur radio ops from competing with the commercial broadcasters. You know, people like KFI, KNX, WCBS and the likes. For those of you that must know, I forward lots of messages. All types. Personal, Bulletins and Traffic. For the others that looks at how many as a chest-thump, you don't need to know *how* many. In addition, I forward e-mail in and out of this medium (internet and UUCP) as well. Lots. 73 es GM from Jeff -- "1935 will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." - Adolf Hitler Amateur: WA6FWI@WA6FWI.#SOCA.CA.USA.NOAM Internet: jangus@skyld.grendel.com US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749 Phone: 1 (310) 324-6080 ------------------------------ Date: 4 Nov 1994 20:05:42 GMT From: gh@christa.unh.edu (Gary Hurd) Subject: pk-88 birdie on 145.05 help? Hi all, name here is Gary. I have an AEA PK-88 tnc and sometimes use it on 145.05. The unit produces a very bad birdie on that freq and makes my Kenwood tr-7600 virtually deaf. I am currently using 145.61 with no problems but would still like to clear up the problem. The tnc is about 3 and a half years old with no upgrade of the eprom. I am currently using tcpip so I don't care about the upgrade unless it would clear up the problem. Tnx es 73 de Gary / WR1U @ KA1OU.NH TCP/IP wr1u@wr1u.ampr.org [44.52.7.40 -- Gary Hurd gh@christa.unh.edu Packet address WR1U @ WB1DSW.NH TCP/IP wr1u.ampr.org [44.52.7.40 PETRA ROCKS ON! ------------------------------ Date: 5 Nov 94 22:44:15 GMT From: Doughengst@aol.COM Subject: unsubscribe unsub doughengst@aol.com ham-digital ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 22:11:08 From: roschews@panix.com (Rob Roschewsk) Subject: WINSOCK <-> AX25 Has anyone come up with a winsock.dll that talks to TCP/IP over AX25????? de KA2PBT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 12:53:50 -0500 From: rsnyder@astro.ge.com (Bob Snyder) References<391b4f$t7g@qualcomm.com> <395vb8$h2c@hpbab.wv.mentorg.COM>, <396g3i$38k@qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: using passwords over packet In article <396g3i$38k@qualcomm.com>, karn@servo.qualcomm.com wrote: > I think I do. It's really very simple; if the protocol does not hide > the user data but merely authenticates it, then it is legal under Part > 97 even if the authentication is based on strong cryptographic > techniques. No rule changes or waivers should be required. Would it be hiding the user data, or hiding any data, since it's all being transmitted? A password isn't encrypted or obscuring the meaning; if my password is "jwdjfc32," then that's the literal meaning of what I transmitted. Similarly under S/key the password means what it means, nothing, except a secret bit of shared information. Except that it's only good one time. :-) However, authenticating packets based on a shared secret is somewhat different. There you have a hash (probably MD5) representing the data being encrypted. If you use something like DES or IDEA to encrypt this, then you are obscuring that content, because it does have a meaning other than itself, and it can't decrypted by anyone other than the parties holding the key to that session. Of course, anyone can generate their own copy of the hash, thus replicating what has been encrypted, but the content is still obscured. > I think this is true even if the authentication cannot be verified by > a third party who does not know the shared secret key. This is > admittedly a disadvantage of using a keyed one-way hash function in > the way I've described. But I think it's more than offset by the > considerably improved performance as compared with RSA signing each > and every packet (which could be verified by anyone with the > corresponding public key). But under a public key system, everyone who wants it can have your key, and thus it can be argued that you aren't obscuring the content, since anyone who wants to can decode it and get the hash. The penalty, as you say, is performance. Symetric encryption is around a 1000x faster than public key encryption. But given that most traffic today happens at 1200 or 9600 baud, I would think that most machines should be able to keep up at those speeds. The swIPe paper details workstation performance, and as I recall they got fairly good response time out of it. Most people don't have workstations doing packet, but most people also aren't running packet anywhere near Ethernet or T1 speeds. Bob -- Bob Snyder N2KGO rsnyder@astro.ge.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 12:56:26 -0500 From: rsnyder@astro.ge.com (Bob Snyder) References<390p3d$c9u@homer.alpha.net> <1994Oct30.232012.19369@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, <1994Oct31.231925.434@systech.mhs.oz.au> Subject: Re: Amateur Packet <-> Linux software. In article <1994Oct31.231925.434@systech.mhs.oz.au>, serge@systech.mhs.oz.au (Serge Burjak) wrote: > Investigate a package called skey, I am trying to find an ftp source. It appears > to generate one time codes from a secret key and can be used on open channels > for just this type of application as a front end to most *nix programs. ftp://ftp.crimelab.com/ is one location for it. -- Bob Snyder N2KGO rsnyder@astro.ge.com ------------------------------ End of Ham-Digital Digest V94 #369 ******************************